Property taxes are complicated, so is it any surprise that reforming the property tax code is similarly complicated?

We talked about the property tax issue on this Plain Talk (again) because it is, without a doubt, the most complicated and consequential question before lawmakers in Bismarck during the 2025 session.

Rep. Scott Louser, a Republican from Minot, discussed his property tax plan, which includes coupling a spending cap on local governments with a buydown of property tax mills. He also critiqued Gov. Kelly Armstrong's plan, saying he's worried that his proposed primary residence tax credits could depress North Dakota's real estate markets.

Sen. Mark Weber, a Republican from Casselton, talked about his role in this process as the chair of the Finance and Tax committee, which will need to sort through these bills. Weber represents a largely rural area, and said that the owners of farm land are worried about being left out in the cold on property tax relief. In some rural areas, the bulk of property taxes are paid by a relatively small number of land owners. Is that fair? And what sort of a situation are we creating if a small number of voters, who don't pay the property tax thanks to the state's primary residence credits, can vote to raise taxes on a much smaller number of land-owning voters who do?

"Everybody should pay a little property tax," Sen. Weber said.

He also expressed frustration with the number of bills introduced this legislative session, which close to a record for the last 20 years. "I think we are introducing entirely too many bills in the legislature," he said.

"If we had less bills we could have more meaningful debates," he added.

This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota. 

Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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There is a fight in the Legislature between the North Dakota Game & Fish Department and a group of hunters and landowners over regulations aimed at curbing the impact of chronic wasting disease on North Dakota's wildlife populations. But is that fight really about CWD? Or is this another front in the culture war spurred by (in some respects not entirely unreasonable) frustration with Game & Fish regulations?

Dusty Backer is an activist (I don't use that word pejoratively, though he objected to being described that way) who joined this episode of Plain Talk to discuss the issue. He argues that concerns over CWD are feigned by state officials, federal officials, and academics as an avenue toward "controlling people."

"Prions don't exist," he told us (CWD is described by health officials as "a prion disease").

He said that the state's efforts to regulate bait hunting, implemented as one method to control the spread of CWD, are unreasonable and an affront to property rights.

Also on this episode, we've heard a lot about Gov. Kelly Armstrong's property tax plan, but Rep. Ben Koppelman, a Republican from West Fargo, has an alternative he says is better, though he admits that he likes broad portions of Armstrong's proposal.

"The cap in the governor's plan I agree with," he said, referring to a 3% limit on growth in local budgets which he says the governor took from him. "I'm honored he would take that idea and put it in his plan."

"Where I disagree is on the relief portion," Koppelman continued, saying that his plan delivers more tax relief on primary residences more quickly than Armstrong's plan by buying down a percentage as opposed to providing a fixed credit.

He says there is political risk in not delivering tax relief swiftly. "I think we're going to set ourselves up for another measure," he said, referring to Measure 4, a proposal to abolish taxes on property values which voters defeated by a wide margin last year.

Koppelman argues that, under his plan, a broader crossection of property owners will feel relief on a shorter timeline than under the governor's plan. "The idea is everyone should get to zer [property taxes] together," he said.

This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota. Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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There's no denying that the easy availability of explicit content on the internet is a major problem for parents, not to mention schools. We all agree, children shouldn't be looking at pornography, but how we go about regulating access (and even how we define what is and is not pornography) are tricky problems.

Rep. Steve Swiontek, a Republican from Fargo, has proposed a bill that would create a requirement for the purveyors of explicit content online to implement age verification, but the government wouldn't enforce it. Instead, the legislation creates a legal liability for the companies allowing them to be sued by private citizens, or classes of citizens, if they aren't doing verification.

"I do have a passion for this one," Rep. Swiontek said on this episode of Plain Talk.

Also on this episode, we discussed a growing trend in the insurance industry that's worrisome for people obliged to take expensive medications. Basically, the insurance companies aren't counting payments made on prescription drugs with third-party money toward a patient's deductible. If the patient gets a coupon or a gift card to cover a portion of their out of pocket payment, that doesn't count. If they get some help from family, or a charity or a church, that also doesn't count.

That can leave those patients stuck on an out-of-pocket treadmill for much longer than they would need to be. Rep. Karen Karls, a Bismarck Republican, joined this Plain Talk alongside Bill Robie from the National Bleeding Disorders Foundation, to talk about proposed legislation prohibiting this practice.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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Former President Joe Biden spent the last moments of his time in office issuing preemptive pardons to family members and political allies. He also pardoned thousands of people convicted of crimes, often to the bewilderment of judges and prosecutors, including some here in North Dakota.

New President Donald Trump, meanwhile, spent the first moments after his inauguration releasing hundreds of people who participated in the violent January 6 attack on Congress which was inspired by his lies about the 2020 election.

Mac Schneider has spent the last couple of years working in the justice business. The Justice Department, specifically, as the U.S. Attorney for North Dakota. How does he feel about these pardons?

"The folks I work with are incredibly serious about upholding the rule of law," he said on this episode of Plain Talk, adding that the "wreckage" created by many of those pardoned persists even as their accountability disappears at the stroke of a politician's pen.

"When you get news of that variety, I think of the victims," he said. "That does hurt."

Also on this episode, first-term state Rep. Austin Foss, a Democrat from Fargo, talks about his experiences in his first legislative session, as well as legislation he's proposed that would require employers to give people interested in serving in the legislature a leave of absence.

What does Foss think of the Legislature so far? "I'm surprised by the number of Republicans that do want to work with us," he said.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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Participatory politics is what makes our democracy work, but it also supposes that those who are participating are doing so in good faith.

How do we handle people who want to use the tools of participation -- things like open records requests and open meetings -- as soap boxes for narcissistic jeremiads? What if the people participating aren't intent on being constructive, but instead are out to just burn everything down (figuratively speaking)?

The City of Dickinson will soon hold a special election in which the incumbent, city commissioner Jason Fridrich, who was recalled to the ballot by petitioners, will run unopposed after the leader of the petitioning campaign, a local gadfly prolifically active on social media and in the public comment period at city meetings, chose not to run.

This exercise in futility will cost the taxpayers of Dickinson tens of thousands of dollars, and what does it accomplish? Satisfying the ego of a minority faction of malcontents?

"I bite my tongue," Dickinson Mayor Scott Decker said on this episode of Plain Talk of his efforts to keep his composure while getting berated during public meetings. "I'm patient," he continued, "but our patience is wearing thin."

Decker and his community are struggling with balancing the sort of openness and transparency that allows certain members of the public to verbally abuse elected officials, and accuse them of all manner of perfidy, with the need to just get on with the public's business.

Why should members of the public, attending a city meeting to learn about budgets, or taxes, or a zoning issue, be subjected to long-winded tirades that often have little to do with city business?

This isn't just a Dickinson problem. Local governing entities across North Dakota -- indeed, across America -- are struggling with these problems. During his interview, Decker offered some fascinating insight on what it all looks like from a seat in local government.

Also on this episode, Travis Finck, North Dakota's top public defender, talks about his office's struggles amid funding shortfalls, and his efforts to convince lawmakers to fund his lawyers on par with what prosecutors receive.

"Right now we're not worried about a level playing field," Finck told us. "We're not even in the arena.

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In North Dakota, game and fish officials have the authority to restrict bait hunting in order to protect animals from diseases like chronic wasting disease. And that's what they've been doing. When a case is found in the deer population, they ban the use of bait for hunting in an area 25 miles around it.

This has a very vocal faction of the hunting community incensed. Many of them insist that chronic wasting disease is a hoax, or at the every least an exaggerated threat, and they want state officials stripped of the ability regulate bait hunting.

There are three versions of bills to do that before lawmakers in Bismarck.

Brock Wahl is a fifth-generation North Dakotan and chair of the North Dakota Backcountry Hunters and Anglers organization. On this episode of Plain Talk, he told co-host Chad Oban and I that while regulation of bait hunting hasn't been perfect, it is necessary, and it is protecting state deer populations from CWD.

"It's undoutable that this is making a difference," he said.

As for the opponents? "I think some of these folks are on a disinformation campaign."

Wahl spoke at length about the history of prion diseases like CWD, or other maladies like so-called "mad cow disease, calling them "both vertical and horizontal" threats. Part of what he means by that is CWD can spread to other species.

Is that a threat to livestock, which is an important part of North Dakota's economy? Wahl said he didn't want to exaggerate the threat. "I don't know that it's a significant concern," he said. But he argued it's like playing the lottery. The odds may be against it, but buy enough tickets, and eventually you'll have a winner.

Wahl said that some opponents of baiting regulation invoke property rights, arguing that they should get to do what they want on their property, but Wahl pointed to Article XI, section 27 of the state constitution, which states, "Hunting, trapping, and fishing and the taking of game and fish are a valued part of our heritage and will be forever preserved for the people and managed by law and regulation for the public good."

The property may be privately owned, Wahl said, but the wildlife belongs to everyone.

Also on this episode, Chad and I discuss the debate over bills mandating the 10 commandments and the Pledge of Allegiance in our schools, the first hearing over Gov. Kelly Armstrong's property tax proposal, and the debate over the explosion in charitable gaming.

This episode is presented by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation. ND Petroleum Foundation provides education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advances quality of life initiatives, and promotes and enhances the conservation heritage of North Dakota.    Learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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By his own admission, Auditor Josh Gallion had a rocky relationship with lawmakers last session, which resulted in the Legislature appropriating funding for an audit of Gallion's office. That audit has been completed. It had findings related to communications issues and confusing invoices. The review also found that Gallion has implemented measures to improve these issues, and that they have improved.

Gallion joined this episode of Plain Talk to discuss the audit of his office, as well as a request he's making to lawmakers to give him subpoena power to help his office review public/private partnerships.

"I can't tell you how much I appreciate the feedback that we received last legislative session," Gallion said. He said there was some "additional emotion" on both sides of the relationship between his office and the Legislature during the 2023 session, but that he hopes to put that in the past.

"We definitely needed to improve the communications and the detail and the training. So, that's the feedback that we really appreciated last session," he said.

As for subpoena power, a growing number of government entities in North Dakota are working with or through private entities like nonprofits. Sometimes, the nonprofits are even created by the government entities themselves. This presents a challenge for Gallion and his team because their authority "really stops at the edge of that government organization," he told co-host Chad Oban and I.

"If we do need to follow the money, there are times where we have challenges and these private entities may not have to necessarily comply with the public records," he continued.

Gallion's office has submitted a proposal for subpoena power to lawmakers.

Also on this episode, Dean Mitchell from DFM Research talked about a survey he conducted which was sponsored by North Dakota United, the state's teacher and public worker's union which Oban also works for. The survey found strong support for universal school lunches and property tax reform, as well as opposition to using public dollars to fund private school tuition.

Mitchell walked us through the survey's results.

This episode is brought to you by the North Dakota Petroleum Foundation, providing education and outreach opportunities related to the petroleum industry, advancing quality of life initiatives, and promoting and enhancing the conservation heritage of North Dakota - learn more at www.NDPetroleumFoundation.org. If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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The public and media reaction to Gov. Kelly Armstrong's first address to the state Legislature has focused on his bold and aggressive plan for property taxes. That's understandable. There's a near-consensus in the state's political circles over property taxes being the most pressing issue facing this legislature. But Armstrong's state-of-the-state address telegraphed another hot issue that could put him at swords' points with another of North Dakota's top elected officials.

During the 2023 session, Attorney General Drew Wrigley was combative with lawmakers who opposes his efforts to implement new mandatory minimum sentences in state law. Ahead of the 2025 session, he told reporter April Baumgarten that he will "lock horns" on the issue again. But during Armstrong's address, he made blunt reference to the fact that North Dakota's jails are full.

On this episode of Plain Talk, I asked the governor if there's tension between his stance and Wrigley's. It seems there is.

"I don't think we have the space" in the state's jails and prisons, Armstrong said. He added that his staff was briefed on Wrigley's plan the same day as his address and that he "hasn't even looked" at the legislation Wrigley is backing. When asked directly if it were something he'd support, Armstrong said, "I don't know yet," though he added that he's never seen a mandatory minimum sentencing bill that he's supported.

"It's expensive to incarcerate people," he said. He promised during his address, and during our interview to be working on what he described as the "cheapest and quickest way to free up prison space," but wasn't ready to provide details, saying he'll announce the plan during a budget address further into he session.

Armstrong is a former defense attorney — he described himself as an "old street lawyer" during our interview — and has been passionate about criminal justice reform since he was first elected to the Legislature as a state Senator in 2012. Wrigley, too, is outspoken on the issue. We could see some fireworks.

Armstrong also discussed his property tax plan with co-host Chad Oban and I, and former U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp also joined to discuss the demise of the so-called "Chevron doctrine" in American jurisprudence, which may be the most consequential political issue you've never heard of.

Why is Congress so dysfunctional? Because they aren't writing laws anymore, instead punting them to regulatory agencies in the executive branch. Why are presidential politics out of control? Because the power Congress has ceded to the executive branch has raised the stakes for presidential elections through the roof.

"Congress needs to exercise its Article I authority and write the laws," Heitkamp said. She's leading a bipartisan group creating a roadmap for Congress on how to reclaim that authority. It's a fascinating discussion, and not nearly as boring as it may seem.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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Guest hosts Jessica and Michael Bell welcome Representative Anna S. Novak for a wide-ranging conversation on the upcoming legislative session. 

From property tax proposals to requiring the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, they explore the policies that will shape classrooms and communities statewide. Rep. Novak and the hosts also tackle energy reliability, including the role of coal and the potential for nuclear power.

The Bells wrap up the episode with their perspectives on upcoming legislative priorities and President Trump's cabinet appointments.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. 

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"Turn off the TV and talk radio," Chris Berg said in this February 6, 2024 interview, which we're re-publishing during our holiday break.

Berg worked in those media for over a decade, earning the most notoriety (and, depending on your perspective, infamy) as a television host in the Fargo market. But Berg says he now has some regrets.

I invited him to talk on this episode of Plain Talk after he responded to an article I posted on Twitter saying that leaving talk radio and television behind was the best decision he could make for his mental health.

"I felt like I was dragging myself to the microphone," he told me. He ultimately decided to step back from that line of work, and decamp to the west coast.

He said that shortly after he moved to California, news broke of a school shooting in Tennessee, and despite the awful news, he felt a sense of relief that he wouldn't have to spend hours having the same old shout-fest about it without anything meaningful getting done.

"The sad thing about the media business is the more anger and hate you sow, the more money you make," he said.

"Take off the red or blue glasses and challenge yourself," he added.

If you want to participate in Plain Talk, just give us a call or text at 701-587-3141. It’s super easy — leave your message, tell us your name and where you’re from, and we might feature it on an upcoming episode. To subscribe to Plain Talk, search for the show wherever you get your podcasts or use one of the links below.

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